Mac on the Network? It Could Happen.
Posted by nathan on 24 Mar 2008 | Tagged as: New Hope stuff., Tech Stuff., my life.
This afternoon I spent some time testing my MacBook Pro on the New Hope network. With the whole Vista thing (resource hog), I’ve been debating for months if I should:
1. Migrate to Vista
2. Stock up on XP and stick with XP until Vista SP3 comes out.
3. Switch to Ubuntu/Linux.
4. Slow (3-4 year) migration to Mac.
Option 3 is out, because our membership database, Roll Call, does not run on a Ubuntu version (yeah, I am well aware there are workarounds for this), and also a big lack of drivers and native software.
Option 2 is probably not the best, because this would require a significant investment in antiquated software technology. And I don’t believe investing in antiquated technology is a wise investment of our limited church funds.
Which leaves me with two viable options:
Migrate to Vista.
Migrate to Mac.
As I explore what I need to migrate to Mac, it seems to look more and more tempting all the time. The biggest issue I may likely face is buy-in. Literally 0% of my users here (myself excluded) use a mac on a regular basis, and I think it would generally scare the majority of my users–which is why I would do a slow migration.
Oh, what to do, what to do…
13 Comments »
on 25 Mar 2008 at 10:06 am 1.
Todd Helmkamp said …
Some other thoughts: Apple is increasingly beginning to pull Microsoft-like stunts, like packaging Safari for windows with an iTunes update (note: that is the full version of Safari, not an update, so most users will assume it is software they need and not a full product. That is not cool). In addition, MACs are prohibitively expensive. It is possible to build a machine that will run Vista easily for 2/3 the price of a comparable MAC. Also, Apple is notorious for being tough on hardware vendors, leading to more expensive replacement parts.
This isn’t to say that Vista is God’s gift to computing either, it has its bugs. But if you have a machine that can handle it, there is not a single thing wrong with Vista. In fact, I’m using it on my laptop right now and LOVE it.
My advice? Don’t migrate to MAC. There are few benefits for the cost. If you’re not comfortable with Vista, wait two more years for Windows 7.
As I advise many of my clients: Windows or Linux for general business, MAC for some home users or graphics-intensive applications.
Disclaimer: MACS are great machines. They’re extremely reliable, easy on system resources, and there are some really great programs for them. However, I don’t believe that these traits justify their high cost. Ultimately, its up to the individual user.
on 25 Mar 2008 at 10:15 am 2.
Todd Helmkamp said …
Another quick point: by staying with Windows and saving that money for your budget, could the church use that extra money for a better purpose? Like a special fund for church members who get hit hard by this recession that is supposedly coming? Or to provide extra food in the Compassion Cupboard? Just some thoughts that have been percolating: how can all of us, as Christians, cut back on our spending and our American lifestyles to prepare for those who need help? (not trying to guilt-trip you or sound preachy; this has truly been on my mind a LOT lately)
on 25 Mar 2008 at 10:27 am 3.
nathan said …
Todd,
A Vista Business capable system is $600.
A Mac Mini I can get for $650. (including mouse and keyboard)
Sure, they aren’t comparable hardware-wise, but that’s because Vista requires an unrighteous amount of resources.
This is why I’m considering it. A Mac Mini is completely capable of our business applications.
I am working on some phone calls to people who have made this switch.
Only time will tell what comes…
EDIT: I have always been very careful in being a wise steward of the church’s money, which is why I have been toiling over this decision for about 9 months now. I can’t base everything on as cheap as possible–I have to balance cost, reliability and long-term investment. Some of the clients we are currently using are literally seven year old windows machines.
on 25 Mar 2008 at 2:08 pm 4.
Todd Helmkamp said …
Hey Nathan,
I wasn’t aware that you could get MACs for that cheap. I stand corrected.
Another thing to consider: support. I know I need to learn MACs (I need more time!!). Are you prepared to support the machines? And, more importantly, are you prepared to teach me the ins-and-outs of MACs so I can support them too?
on 25 Mar 2008 at 2:43 pm 5.
nathan said …
Yes, actually, companies that have switched to Mac actually report a drastic decrease in support calls. I’m looking forward to that!
on 25 Mar 2008 at 10:28 pm 6.
joe said …
Well, as far as the transition goes, I can tell you that it isn’t all that bad. I’ve been in the process of migrating a company and all of its sister and partner companies from Microsoft products to all Mac.
The primary company has about 40 employees and is 20% migrated. The sister/partner companies each have about 5-10 employees and are all 100% migrated. We have experienced a drastic drop in support calls! Somewhere in the 80% neighborhood!!! Productivity has also increased pretty drastically.
We’ve reduced the per person cost of IT per year from around $3500 per person to around $1100 per person (and that includes the initial investment to purchase macs and replace all of the servers with mac or linux servers!) And, we expect that number to drop a little after we absorb the cost of the hardware, in about 18 months.
We’ve also migrated several custom “Windows-only” applications that were written specifically for these companies to be able to run on a mac. I don’t have them running natively, yet, but they are running on emulation platforms and are more stable being emulated on a mac than running natively on windows! (As a matter of fact, the programmers are amazed at how much easier it is to develop software for Mac, and are considering revising their products, and encouraging their other customers to make the switch.)
To me, one of the big reasons for this is simply because the apple platform is closed. I can’t go to Walmart and get parts for my Mac. When I go to Walmart, I am getting a device that was manufactured as cheaply as possible and has a driver that came from who knows where, and might not be very stable. Software developers must accommodate this lowest common denominator in their applications, which renders the applications less stable, and thus the operating system.
Apple has a closed system, where they control all the hardware. So the OS and the third party apps are focusing on a much more stable lowest common denominator, thus resulting in the potential for more stable software.
Certainly, there are downsides to Apple, like their recent Microsoft-like stunts. But the market doesn’t need everyone to switch to Mac, it needs everyone to engage in healthy competition. Microsoft needs to start developing competitive products and considering the needs of the end user. And, I think the recent surge in Apple popularity may help bring that about. I think it’s also important for Microsoft to respond, so that Apple doesn’t become the next Microsoft…… (However, you will never, NEVER, find me using Microsoft products again, without some miracle. I’m sold on Mac, personally.)
Nathan, the next time I go out to Houston, Kansas or Nevada to check on the setup I would be happy to let you know and you can come along and see how things are going. Most of those shops are all Mac minis. The mac minis in the larger (and more local) company won’t be installed until after September, based on the current rollout schedule.
on 25 Mar 2008 at 10:36 pm 7.
joe said …
Oh, and as far as Vista running fine on a machine that can handle, this is only partly true. Try integrating the Pre-Service Pack 1 Vista onto an Active Directory network (which is the case for almost any business with more than 10 users). The network performance is pathetic, and its integration with Active Directory is questionable at best. Service Pack 1 claims to have fixed these issues, but I haven’t seen anything positive about it, yet.
Also, Nathan, Dell may be able to sway Microsoft to continue selling Windows XP Pro. They are the largest distributor of Microsoft OS’es in the world, and my corporate rep there tells me that they are willing to stop selling Microsoft products on their business machines (they will switch to linux) if they are forced to switch to Vista and it isn’t fixed.
on 26 Mar 2008 at 10:39 am 8.
Todd Helmkamp said …
@Joe, you make some excellent points. I hadn’t considered Active Directory. In fact, as you both know, networking is not one of my strong points (by choice!! I hate networking). From an end-user support tech’s perspective, if you have a machine powerful enough to run it, Vista is fine. I should’ve put in that caveat.
on 26 Mar 2008 at 12:30 pm 9.
nathan said …
I find it rather funny that the most response my blog has generated in the past few months in a techie blog, and likely, the only three people who can understand all this tech talk to the fullest are the three engaged.
on 26 Mar 2008 at 1:47 pm 10.
Todd Helmkamp said …
Maybe that’s why we’re such good friends. We’re all nerds.
on 26 Mar 2008 at 9:18 pm 11.
joe said …
@nathan: I was thinking the same thing…the most likely people to understand this conversation (based on my limited knowledge of your readership) are the three involved! I guess I’ll have to admit I’m a nerd…DARN! I was so close
Todd: While I agree that Vista running on an adequate machine is probably okay for the end-user, out of about 65 Vista to Mac conversions I’ve done in the last six months (most are home users) only 1 has actually wanted Vista over all the available options, and 3 or 4 (5 tops) have wanted Windows XP over Vista or OS X. About 85% of these are switching to Mac Mini’s and are reusing their old kvm. The rest are spread across the rest of the mac offerings.
I’m going to stop while I’m ahead. I could argue the finer points of Mac vs. PC for months (Actually, I have been) and I enjoy the debate too much!
So, that’s my two cents (unless, of course, there is some really good software architecture or network layer handling discussion that starts up…)
on 27 Mar 2008 at 6:53 am 12.
nathan said …
I would add, I bet Marvin can follow this conversation. And anyone else? Who else can follow all this jargon?
on 27 Mar 2008 at 1:32 pm 13.
nathan said …
Yeah, I might add some lurkers who I know occasionally read who have yet to comment: Nathan (no, not me, the other Nathan), Joel and Jon.
And I’m sure there’s more of you…