Comments on: The church has a colon. http://nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/ a journal of one Christ-following digerati wannabe. Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:07:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: nathan http://nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-1396 nathan Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:25:02 +0000 http://www.nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-1396 Angel, I would suggest the people in church who are creating the problem are the ones who need to exist via the colon. It's people who cause problems who need to be excreted, not those in need. Angel,
I would suggest the people in church who are creating the problem are the ones who need to exist via the colon.

It’s people who cause problems who need to be excreted, not those in need.

]]> By: Angel http://nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-1395 Angel Fri, 22 Jun 2007 04:11:30 +0000 http://www.nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-1395 I have had experience both in church and out of church and sometimes our main problems come from within the church. Take for instance some churches would not even consider a yound pregnant girl in their church because she was not brought up in church but they way I see it Jesus took sinners under his wing to teach them a better way and if our churches cannot do as our Lord and Savior Did then that Church does not need to stand!!!!!!!!! I have had experience both in church and out of church and sometimes our main problems come from within the church.
Take for instance some churches would not even consider a yound pregnant girl in their church because she was not brought up in church but they way I see it
Jesus took sinners under his wing to teach them a better way and if our churches cannot do as our Lord and Savior Did then that Church does not need to stand!!!!!!!!!

]]> By: Todd Helmkamp http://nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-458 Todd Helmkamp Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:56:58 +0000 http://www.nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-458 @Joe et al: Why the back door? That smacks of hiding it to me, and that's what my objection was. I'm certainly not advocating letting "terrorists" run wild (anyone who knows me knows how furious that kind of person makes me). So, my issue, I guess, is with the idea of the back door. If someone's a wolf, why not run him out the front door so everybody knows what happens to wolves? Jesus didn't clear out the temple in the middle of the night after everyone had gone home. @Arzell: the inflation or the Biblical discipline? @Joe et al:

Why the back door? That smacks of hiding it to me, and that’s what my objection was. I’m certainly not advocating letting “terrorists” run wild (anyone who knows me knows how furious that kind of person makes me).

So, my issue, I guess, is with the idea of the back door. If someone’s a wolf, why not run him out the front door so everybody knows what happens to wolves? Jesus didn’t clear out the temple in the middle of the night after everyone had gone home.

@Arzell: the inflation or the Biblical discipline?

]]> By: Abby! http://nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-454 Abby! Sun, 25 Mar 2007 04:03:00 +0000 http://www.nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-454 I'm with Jeremiah on this one. Very well put. I’m with Jeremiah on this one. Very well put.

]]> By: joe http://nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-452 joe Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:37:46 +0000 http://www.nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-452 You know, I think the church should be a hospital for the sick...but what do you do if a terrorist tries to get admitted into the hospital so he can spread some sort of chemical warfare infection? You get him out of the hospital and quarantine him. We need to be discerning. There are times, actually most of the time, when we need to help the sick. But there are other times when someone is a wolf in sheep's clothing and they need to be dealt with. Todd, we do need to follow that biblical model of discipline, but it ends with ceasing our fellowship with that person, if all else fails. That's not an ultimatum...hopefully it's temporary until they change. But, sometimes, opening the back door really is the only solution. You know, I think the church should be a hospital for the sick…but what do you do if a terrorist tries to get admitted into the hospital so he can spread some sort of chemical warfare infection?

You get him out of the hospital and quarantine him.

We need to be discerning. There are times, actually most of the time, when we need to help the sick. But there are other times when someone is a wolf in sheep’s clothing and they need to be dealt with.

Todd, we do need to follow that biblical model of discipline, but it ends with ceasing our fellowship with that person, if all else fails. That’s not an ultimatum…hopefully it’s temporary until they change. But, sometimes, opening the back door really is the only solution.

]]> By: Tara Lilly http://nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-451 Tara Lilly Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:33:34 +0000 http://www.nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-451 I haven't read Mark Driscoll's book so I am certainly not going to trash it based on this one excerpt, but I agree with Todd's perspective. Maybe I am misinterpreting this because it is out of context sort-of, but I don't like the line "when God is trying to run people out of our church." God doesn't run people out of churches. He may call them to serve somewhere else and they leave (that's just obedience) but the rest of the time people cause trouble/leave because of their own problems in their walk. I'm in the recovery class taught by Dr. Gary Swanson right now, and the purpose of this class is to prepare a few people to lead recovery groups at our church. The result is going to be us essentially opening the doors wide, specifically to people with addictions and trauma, the "sick people". They won't look like us, they are going to have problems different from us, and if the ministry is successful we will be actively taking the hardcore sick in, and since it takes a long time to get people with serious addictions to recovery, it is going to be a long time before they are "healthy". So what do we have to do to prepare? (Ok we'll go with the hospital analogy...) Instead of being scared of being "infected" we have to build our immune systems up, meaning the more mature Christians have to shore up our faith, be in the Word and prayer, and be strong against the attacks of Satan through actively sinful people in our clean environment. We have to put pride aside and get our hands dirty. I think by "biblical discipline" Todd means equally offering Truth as well as Grace; read a current discussion about this in Pastor Chet's blog, http://chetswearingen.wordpress.com. Awhile back Pastor Diehl did respond to the idea that poisonous people should be shown the door at church, but he was more referring to supposed Christians who are "trolling" to use a tech term. Hospital staff puts their all into getting people well, they don't send them home because the work is too hard or the healing isn't happening as quick as they like. And they take precautions to protect themselves from getting infected, they don't say, "you could get me sick so I'm not going to help you." Dying to self, that's what it takes to serve God. It's time we were willing to make the church more like a hospital, not a five-star hotel for us all to relax in until the rapture. I haven’t read Mark Driscoll’s book so I am certainly not going to trash it based on this one excerpt, but I agree with Todd’s perspective. Maybe I am misinterpreting this because it is out of context sort-of, but I don’t like the line “when God is trying to run people out of our church.” God doesn’t run people out of churches. He may call them to serve somewhere else and they leave (that’s just obedience) but the rest of the time people cause trouble/leave because of their own problems in their walk. I’m in the recovery class taught by Dr. Gary Swanson right now, and the purpose of this class is to prepare a few people to lead recovery groups at our church. The result is going to be us essentially opening the doors wide, specifically to people with addictions and trauma, the “sick people”. They won’t look like us, they are going to have problems different from us, and if the ministry is successful we will be actively taking the hardcore sick in, and since it takes a long time to get people with serious addictions to recovery, it is going to be a long time before they are “healthy”. So what do we have to do to prepare? (Ok we’ll go with the hospital analogy…) Instead of being scared of being “infected” we have to build our immune systems up, meaning the more mature Christians have to shore up our faith, be in the Word and prayer, and be strong against the attacks of Satan through actively sinful people in our clean environment. We have to put pride aside and get our hands dirty. I think by “biblical discipline” Todd means equally offering Truth as well as Grace; read a current discussion about this in Pastor Chet’s blog, http://chetswearingen.wordpress.com.
Awhile back Pastor Diehl did respond to the idea that poisonous people should be shown the door at church, but he was more referring to supposed Christians who are “trolling” to use a tech term. Hospital staff puts their all into getting people well, they don’t send them home because the work is too hard or the healing isn’t happening as quick as they like. And they take precautions to protect themselves from getting infected, they don’t say, “you could get me sick so I’m not going to help you.” Dying to self, that’s what it takes to serve God. It’s time we were willing to make the church more like a hospital, not a five-star hotel for us all to relax in until the rapture.

]]> By: arzell http://nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-449 arzell Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:46:32 +0000 http://www.nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-449 Todd, I don't understand what you are saying in the last paragraph. And as for the hospital illustration, what if quarantine is in order? Todd, I don’t understand what you are saying in the last paragraph. And as for the hospital illustration, what if quarantine is in order?

]]> By: Todd Helmkamp http://nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-446 Todd Helmkamp Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:42:45 +0000 http://www.nathandiehl.com/2007/03/23/the-church-has-a-colon/#comment-446 Why would you spend time reading a book by a pastor who insists on cursing (which is where "cuss" comes from...)? Anyway, I like your dad's philosophy better: the church is a hospital for sick people, to help heal them rather than get them out of it. Biblical discipline should be the model for how a church takes care of "poisonous" members, not "opening the back door". My $.02. :) I can't even keep up with inflation. Why would you spend time reading a book by a pastor who insists on cursing (which is where “cuss” comes from…)?

Anyway, I like your dad’s philosophy better: the church is a hospital for sick people, to help heal them rather than get them out of it.

Biblical discipline should be the model for how a church takes care of “poisonous” members, not “opening the back door”.

My $.02. :) I can’t even keep up with inflation.

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