three beliefs.
Posted by nathan on 12 Jan 2007 | Tagged as: churches on the ball.
- The church ought to be the most creative place on the planet.
- The greatest message deserves the greatest marketing.
- The church is called to compete in the middle of the marketplace.
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on 12 Jan 2007 at 10:46 am 1.
Todd Helmkamp said …
I’m sorry, maybe I’m misunderstanding, but it seems like I’ve been seeing a ton of stuff lately relating to church marketing.
Are churches marketing in China? Or Africa? Or any other places where thousands of people are becoming Christians?
Are we focused on offering an experience, a warm-fuzzy feel-good time, with lots of cool graphics and videos?
Or are we focused on getting out of our comfort zones, catching the fire of God’s Spirit, and letting Him use us to change lives?
on 12 Jan 2007 at 10:47 am 2.
Todd Helmkamp said …
P.s.
Marketing didn’t bring me to Christ. It was the simple faith of a Godly woman who wouldn’t give up on her boss even when he was a jerk.
on 12 Jan 2007 at 12:46 pm 3.
nathan said …
Todd,
perhaps you have a future in church marketing? hehe…
Maybe if you’re seeing a lot of stuff about marketing, God is trying to teach you.
Perhaps you are misunderstanding a bit. If it helps, here are opposite statements from what i stated:
1. The church should not be creative
2. The greatest message in the world is only worthy of our worst efforts to market the message
3. The church is called to be completely separate from the world (the marketplace)
Do you agree more with those? which set of statements is supported Biblically?
I never said marketing brought anyone to Christ. I’m not sure where that came from, but i certainly didn’t mean to imply that marketing is a replacement to salvation.
on 12 Jan 2007 at 4:11 pm 4.
Todd Helmkamp said …
Ok, we’re misunderstanding each other.
Doh!
I discussed this with a Christian friend here at work, and he summed it up very well (my opinion, I mean): many churches are focusing on being cool instead of sharing the Gospel.
I hope that clears up the misunderstanding.
on 12 Jan 2007 at 4:35 pm 5.
nathan said …
Yup. And i agree with that statement. many churches are off balance.
So, i guess my question that comes out of that is, if a church has those three beliefs (in the initial post), it is then necessary for them to focus on ‘being cool instead of sharing the gospel?’
I would suggest that if a church held to each of those three, it would be literally impossible for that to occur. If you truly believe you have the ‘greatest message,’ you simply cannot do anything without telling people about what that message.
on 13 Jan 2007 at 7:03 pm 6.
joe said …
Coming from the perspective of a professional marketer in the ‘secular’ market, I really think that the church should focus on reaching the lost, through the power of the Holy Spirit.
But, at the same time, I think it’s important for me to reach those that I would be most effective in reaching…I should never turn anyone away…but I should focus on those that I can be the most effective in reaching.
I guess it really boils down to reaching the lost, if I can use demographic research and specific methodology to do it, then so be it, but that can never be a replacement for the leading and direction of the Holy Spirit.
on 15 Jan 2007 at 8:45 am 7.
nathan said …
Is holding to those three beliefs necessary and sufficient to be off balance?
on 15 Jan 2007 at 9:08 am 8.
Todd Helmkamp said …
@Nathan: I’m not sure what you mean.
on 15 Jan 2007 at 9:56 am 9.
joe said …
@nathan: Neither am I.
on 15 Jan 2007 at 1:07 pm 10.
nathan said …
Okay,
What i am asking, is:
If someone holds to those three beliefs, is it necessary and sufficient, i.e., ALWAYS, off-balance? (If they hold to these three beliefs literally, are they always off-balance?)
Your comments seem to come from an impression that by stating those three things, I am suggesting the church abandon the message for marketing. (or something similar along those lines) When, in fact, belief two says “The greatest message deserves the greatest marketing.” That statement makes it pretty clear the only reason we do marketing is because we have ‘the greatest message.’
It doesn’t say, ‘The greatest marketing is the only way to get people in our doors’ or ‘The greatest marketing is the only way to reach people. Instead it states, ‘The greatest message deserves the greatest marketing.’
I furthermore suggest that is someone actually holds to those beliefs literally, it would be very hard to be out of balance.
Is there anything there that is not scriptural? I’m not talking about practices of some church down the street (or our church). I’m talking about those three beliefs. Are they scriptural? or is there anything there which is perhaps treading on thin ice?
on 15 Jan 2007 at 1:22 pm 11.
joe said …
I think I have two real concerns.
The first is, statements one and two are true, unless the Holy Spirit leads us differently. For instance, if I do all of the demographic research and come up with a plan on how to reach a specific group of people, and the Holy Spirit leads me to use a different approach or tactic, one that is contrary to my research, I need to swallow my pride and follow the Holy Spirit. His leading supersedes everything, provided that it lines up with scripture, and if it’s really Him, it will. Maybe a fourth belief stating the role of the Holy Spirit would bring the others into balance.
My second concern is that I don’t think the church is called to compete in the middle of the marketplace. We are not a business. We are not trying to make a profit. We are trying to reach the lost, that is not a job or a business, it’s a lifestyle, a passion, and a calling. Quite frankly, I’m tired of pastors and church leaders reaching the lost because it’s their job. It’s not their job, it’s the heart of God, and the closer they get to Him, the more it should be happening as a natural outgrowth of their relationship with Him.
As it is currently stated, I don’t agree with point three.
on 15 Jan 2007 at 2:08 pm 12.
Todd Helmkamp said …
Also, why should the church be the most creative place on the planet? Too much creativity (in interpretation, in beliefs, etc.) has led to countless heresies. Is it good to get creative with God’s Word?
I guess I would need to know what exactly is meant by “creative”.
But I agree with point #2 completely.
on 15 Jan 2007 at 2:11 pm 13.
joe said …
Oh, I totally agree that we should be the most creative people on the planet; we serve the ultimate Creator!
He should be our inspiration.
But, Todd, I agree with you that some things shouldn’t be left to creativity, like interpreting what God said.
on 17 Jan 2007 at 8:39 am 14.
nathan said …
okay, so i think i am no good at communicating my point.
Todd, creativity in one’s theology is not creativity. it’s heresy. that is definitely not what is meant by creative. The church should be the most creative place, meaning, we become like a child and think ‘outside the box’.
Jeremiah, can you give me biblical examples of the early church not competing in the world’s market? Jesus did the majority of his teaching outside the walls of a synagogue. (and interestingly, if you look at it, it was the church-goers who were so steeped in tradition they weren’t interested in what he had to say!)
on 17 Jan 2007 at 9:40 am 15.
joe said …
@nathan: Maybe it would be better if I asked you to explain what you mean by competing in the world’s market. The way it is stated, I think of it as two businesses competing, and I don’t think that’s biblical. But maybe I’m misunderstanding what you mean.
on 19 Jan 2007 at 8:35 am 16.
nathan said …
before one becomes a christian, he is pulled by things in the marketplace. Alcohol, parties, girls, bars, television. All kinds of things. Those are in the marketplace, and those (and others) are the church’s competitors.
on 19 Jan 2007 at 10:20 am 17.
Todd said …
@nathan: I agree that it’s important to “get the word out” but we want to make sure we’re not treating our message as a commodity, but as LIFE. I think that’s where I was getting concerned/confused.
on 19 Jan 2007 at 11:23 am 18.
nathan said …
Todd,
EXCELLENT point!
interesting comparison. Coffee is the second-most trading commodity in the world. But starbucks doesn’t thrive because they sell coffee. They thrive becuase they sell a pleasing environment in which to purchase good coffee.
interesting little coincidence, perhaps the church: We have a message (which is the same as it’s always been), but we market because we “package” and “present” the timeless, changeless message in a ‘pleasing’ way.
cool! i hadn’t thought of this comparison prior!
on 19 Jan 2007 at 1:01 pm 19.
Todd Helmkamp said …
@Nathan: Glad I could help.
on 25 Jan 2007 at 10:02 am 20.Creativity | raNdOM ThOughTs said …
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